MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Oct 19, 2010 17:36:30 GMT -5
yeah, definitely get the hammer punches instead of the "rotary" punches. I've worn through about 5 rotary punches and they're always just a headache.
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Batu
Servant
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Posts: 76
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Post by Batu on Oct 19, 2010 23:11:41 GMT -5
I might take you up on that steel plate offer. How many do you have and for what price?
I think I might make a different set of armor than what I posted the link to. I want something that looks "ork-y".
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MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Oct 20, 2010 7:53:54 GMT -5
I have 37 2x4" plates of 16 guage steel. You can see them in the photo gallery under the album "MackyD's new armor". It's enough to cover an entire chest and back piece of armor unless you're chunkier than me. Judging by your avatar, you'd probably have some left over to attach to some tassets or find another use for. The plates are already rounded to "dag legal" corners, the edges are filed smooth, and holes for rivet attachment are predrilled. I did all this work myself by hand over quite a few hours. Let's say a dollar per plate? Make it 50 and I'll throw some armor grade leather chunks out of them inventory as well. Hodge Podge is the name of the game for Ork armor, make it out of several ragged pieces and then rivet it, lace it, belt it, throw it together as messy and crude as you can make it look.
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Batu
Servant
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Post by Batu on Oct 20, 2010 9:08:46 GMT -5
I'll have to get the funds together, but yeah that's the idea. I plan on having plates, studs, weave, "spikes", all manner of armor types just thrown on there and it look like the ugliest piece of armor.
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MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Oct 20, 2010 22:34:08 GMT -5
be careful about spikes, regardless of size or material. Some heralds would fail anything even relatively spikey on principle. Beyond that, orc armor is a lot of fun to do! Just send me a PM when/if you decide you want to buy the stuff off me.
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Batu
Servant
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Posts: 76
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Post by Batu on Oct 20, 2010 23:13:45 GMT -5
I don't want the spikes to be anything more than foam covered in grey cloth or painted silver.
Hm. I ran over the rules really quickly and they're expressly forbidden. But is this on the basis of metal or dense spikes or would a foam (camping or open-cell) spike work?
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MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Oct 21, 2010 10:50:15 GMT -5
well, armor has to be made with entirely period materials (leather, steel, copper, etc) so they'd still be disallowed. Some people make somewhat spikey bits out of leather, but those can be failed at events depending on the heralds and armor checkers.
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Batu
Servant
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Posts: 76
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Post by Batu on Oct 21, 2010 11:36:37 GMT -5
Good point. Maybe I'll settle for massive studs or something.
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Post by Stubbie on Oct 21, 2010 17:10:48 GMT -5
Don't forget
5.1.14 - Rigid body armor including helmets must not have projections which protrude more than 1/2 inch from the armor.
Maybe / maybe not a consideration but something to keep in mind.
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Batu
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Post by Batu on Oct 22, 2010 0:07:28 GMT -5
It seems Dagorhir wants to ruin my fun.
Scratch the spikes. Or massive studs.
But I wonder if this rule is open for interpretation. Like obviously a set of cow horns is a huge safety hazard, but an open-cell foam spike would be for decoration and not technically for armor purposes, potentially by-passing the "ARMOR must be of period materials"
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Batu
Servant
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Posts: 76
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Post by Batu on Oct 22, 2010 0:41:22 GMT -5
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Post by Stubbie on Oct 22, 2010 7:35:11 GMT -5
That is actually more like plywood made with leather instead of wood pulp. It's 16+oz. Although the description say 14-16oz.... ok I dunno about that. The stuff I looked at, yeah, it wouldn't even bend enough to weasel out from under the table. Also it's sold by the pound, so that's 8.99 x 15lbs - 134.85 ; AND you're getting MUCH less of a material that is infinity more difficult to work with. This is what you want: www.tandyleatherfactory.com/home/department/Leather/9047-02.aspx?feature=Product_2. If you're layering or studding, you can risk the light weight version, which shaves a few dollars off. Otherwise, you run the risk of it being too thin. 1oz roughly = 1/64th of an inch. So for 3/16"= 12/64th, 12oz leather, minimum. Since nothing natural is uniform. running a 10/12oz hide is very risky. About the foam spikes, no one can stop you from making them. I believe we're just saying it's a very dicey proposition about them being passed. It's a case by case basis. By all means do them, see what you can manage; just do so with the knowledge all the materials, time, effort might be for naught.
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Batu
Servant
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Posts: 76
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Post by Batu on Oct 22, 2010 23:55:43 GMT -5
Bending leather... Or at least molding it to a gentle curve to contour say my shoulder or sides... How do?
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Baethor
High Council
Duk'Rik of the Bri'Ak Duraz.
That which does not kill me, has made a tactical error
Posts: 2,234
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Post by Baethor on Oct 25, 2010 2:13:58 GMT -5
warm water.
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Post by Stubbie on Oct 25, 2010 7:02:04 GMT -5
Water forming: Soak in water until bubbles stop appearing (1 - this WILL stain your water container and 2- it removes a lot of tanning chemicals that aren't exactly good to have secreting over you when you sweat later) , then either apply to yourself or have a form set up and strap to it and allow to dry. If your using yourself, you can use a low low set oven, ~180*, and slowly bake to remove water, just reform every 10-15 minutes and don't bake it totally dry.
I've moved away from baking but have done it before. Partially lazy, partially got tired of over-cooking straps and having to re-do them. Now I just strap it on after it's made and let sweat / body heat / pressures mold it to me. Still soak it to get the chem's out though.
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MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Oct 25, 2010 9:31:17 GMT -5
I make a lot of armor for other people, so I normally soak the leather then use their dimensions and kinda shape it out by hand into general body contours. I then set the pieces into a wood frame to hold their shape and set it with a hairdryer, then just keep it in proximity to a space heater until some of the water bakes out. The oven tends to make it a little too rigid and dried out from my experience. This really applies more to thicker leather.
If you're using a thin underlayer of leather like in the brig vest, just clean it well with saddle soap and it will make the leather much more plyable and soft. It will also remove all the nasty chemicals.
Also to note: if you have well water instead of tap, make SURE you run your water through a filter before soaking. I've found from experience that unfiltered well water can leave mineral deposits on your leather, making it feel crusty and brittle. The only way to get them off is with saddle soap, which then makes your leather soft and it loses some of it's form.
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Post by Stubbie on Oct 25, 2010 18:10:16 GMT -5
Hey I didn't know about the well water thing. Thanks for that, explains a lil about my first set of bracers....
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Post by Firoth on Oct 28, 2010 17:51:39 GMT -5
Also, about the spikes. It's still a little dicey, but if you were to use plastidip instead of cloth it would look a lot less gaudy and ridiculous.
That's something I planned to use on certain parts of my in-the-works armor for details, since it's durable and capable of showing fine..well, detail.
My 2 cents anyway
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MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Oct 30, 2010 9:13:57 GMT -5
I've always interpreted the "period materials for armor" refer to the actual unit of armor, not to the armor-ness of a piece. In other words: Armor must be made out entirely of leather, metal, etc. Otherwise you could take some 14 oz leather pieces, duct tape them together, and call it armor. The rules are written explaining what armor-grade materials are, such as 16 guage steel, x thickness of armor, etc. In addition to rules about armor thickness requirements, the writers of rules went to the extra length of including the "period materials only" rule. So to me, your entire armor should be made of period materials. This has been subject to a lot of debate, and whether or not armor including non-period materials would pass will vary by herald/armor checker.
Plastidip= not period materials
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aros
New Member
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Post by aros on Oct 30, 2010 14:25:26 GMT -5
I've always interpreted the "period materials for armor" refer to the actual unit of armor, not to the armor-ness of a piece. In other words: Armor must be made out entirely of leather, metal, etc. Otherwise you could take some 14 oz leather pieces, duct tape them together, and call it armor. The rules are written explaining what armor-grade materials are, such as 16 guage steel, x thickness of armor, etc. In addition to rules about armor thickness requirements, the writers of rules went to the extra length of including the "period materials only" rule. So to me, your entire armor should be made of period materials. This has been subject to a lot of debate, and whether or not armor including non-period materials would pass will vary by herald/armor checker. Plastidip= not period materials I do want to say though, from what i saw this past rag, that period armor materials of appropriate thickness and construction placed on/over safety gear does constitute it as armor.
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MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Oct 30, 2010 17:20:38 GMT -5
That's included in the armor rules as well
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Post by Stubbie on Oct 30, 2010 20:34:26 GMT -5
I've always interpreted the "period materials for armor" refer to the actual unit of armor, not to the armor-ness of a piece. In other words: Armor must be made out entirely of leather, metal, etc. Otherwise you could take some 14 oz leather pieces, duct tape them together, and call it armor. The rules are written explaining what armor-grade materials are, such as 16 guage steel, x thickness of armor, etc. In addition to rules about armor thickness requirements, the writers of rules went to the extra length of including the "period materials only" rule. So to me, your entire armor should be made of period materials. This has been subject to a lot of debate, and whether or not armor including non-period materials would pass will vary by herald/armor checker. Plastidip= not period materials *color added by meJust acknowledging your last sentence as the key point here, but you CAN duct tape armor-grade leather together and get armor, as rules stand now. You can take 6oz leather, 2-layer it with a 1/2" seam, put together with pot steel washers and aluminum pop-rivets and get Dag-legal armor. As long as the base-unit is all legal armor, anything above and beyond that is "adornment"; as long as it too follows appropriate rules. Assuming they do and the wearer of these spikes arent out bear hugging people and yelling "GREEN"; there shouldn't be a problem.
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Batu
Servant
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Post by Batu on Oct 31, 2010 0:34:41 GMT -5
Honestly though, if someone with skills is willing to put for the effort, I might just pay for it. I am dreading the thought of doing it myself, screwing up, and dumping tons of money into it. Should I come up with the design, would I have any potential takers?
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MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Oct 31, 2010 9:58:28 GMT -5
I'd love to help out if I could, but the real world schedule isn't allowing much time for White Bear Armoury at the moment.
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Batu
Servant
Patience. Discipline. Calculation. Honor.
Posts: 76
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Post by Batu on Oct 31, 2010 12:43:31 GMT -5
I'll give you my snack pack AND I'll be your best friend.
Well, I don't need anything in the immediate future. I still have to get the funds.
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