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Post by deuce600 on Jul 10, 2010 18:34:17 GMT -5
Is this the kind we are to use? I just picked some up and about to make a blue but before i start i want to make sure its the right kind, it was 7$
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Dorian Prior
RP Architect
Black Legion & Sanguine Syndicate Agent
Posts: 405
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Post by Dorian Prior on Jul 10, 2010 19:11:58 GMT -5
Yep. Should be a blue roll of camping foam. Price sounds about right too. No worries.
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Post by deuce600 on Jul 10, 2010 19:49:54 GMT -5
Yep thats what i got thank you, just had to be 100% sure before i waste 25$ on a sword that fails
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Brogas
Servant
King of Dunland
Posts: 54
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Post by Brogas on Jul 10, 2010 21:11:02 GMT -5
While the cost of your first sword may be higher, due to mistakes or redo's, you will find that you can make a sword pretty cheap as time goes on. The intial investment will always be higher, then with experience and improved technique this investment pays off.
Mind if I ask how you would be spending $25 on a sword that you are making?
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Post by Firoth on Jul 10, 2010 21:50:51 GMT -5
My guess:
Can of Dap: $10 Core: ~$3 Foam: $7 Cloth Tape: $3 Cloth: $3
That's $26 easy.
~Firoth
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Kotaro
Moderator
Supporter of Hammer Pants
Shogun
Posts: 1,174
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Post by Kotaro on Jul 10, 2010 21:53:19 GMT -5
More like $26 for enough materials to make three to five average blue swords.
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Post by Firoth on Jul 10, 2010 21:59:18 GMT -5
Right, but for an initial expendenture, it will be around 25 dollars. Like Brogas said, it will be cheaper once you have already paid for resources standing by. Unless your me and have to buy Evalite, square fg stock, and PD in order to make a sword that makes me grin ~Firoth
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Post by deuce600 on Jul 10, 2010 22:56:41 GMT -5
i bought a can of spray on glue, not dap 9 3$ for the core, a broom stick handle 6-7 foam 6 lighters 4$ (i know not needed but ehh) I have old bed sheet that was ripped when my ex vacuumed it. So thats about it
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Post by Firoth on Jul 10, 2010 23:33:54 GMT -5
Okay, stop right there. Here, on tuesday I'm going to give you a core if I can make it to practice. Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please do NOT use a broom stick for your core. Your weapon will most likely be too heavy and too unwieldy to use, especially considering you will have to wrap the core with atleast 1 layer of tape before the foam goes on. Decent, very cheap alternatives: Driveway markers (the things with red/blue reflectors on top of them), 3/4" PVC, electrical fence posts (the perfectly round grey ones, not the ones with spikes sticking out the sides of them). Wood is always a bad idea, unless its a spear. Then, it's only kind of bad. Of course, if you want to get technical, bamboo isn't a type of wood (tree), It's a grass. You can buy electrical fence posts at Tractor Supply stores, and you can buy the reflectors at either walmart or at Lowes (where you can also find the pvc). If you use Pvc, make sure its the white kind that says Sch 40 on the side of it. (Schedule Forty). If you can find/afford Sch 80, which is twice as thick as the white, that stuff makes heavy but decently durable reds, especially if you need a core to heat-bend for a curved weapon. Unfortunently Sch 80 pipe is like.....20 dollars for 10 feet or something crazy like that, luckily my dad is a plumbing contractor. -eye roll- If you must use spray glue, make sure to spray a layer on both surfaces that you are going to adhere, then let them both dry a minute or two until it loses it's luster, then put the pieces together. After you put them together DO NOT pull them back apart. If you do, the glue will lose it's adhesive properties when it strings. I speak from experience. ~Firoth
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Post by deuce600 on Jul 11, 2010 0:07:34 GMT -5
Okay, stop right there. Here, on tuesday I'm going to give you a core if I can make it to practice. Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please do NOT use a broom stick for your core. Your weapon will most likely be too heavy and too unwieldy to use, especially considering you will have to wrap the core with atleast 1 layer of tape before the foam goes on. Decent, very cheap alternatives: Driveway markers (the things with red/blue reflectors on top of them), 3/4" PVC, electrical fence posts (the perfectly round grey ones, not the ones with spikes sticking out the sides of them). Wood is always a bad idea, unless its a spear. Then, it's only kind of bad. Of course, if you want to get technical, bamboo isn't a type of wood (tree), It's a grass. You can buy electrical fence posts at Tractor Supply stores, and you can buy the reflectors at either walmart or at Lowes (where you can also find the pvc). If you use Pvc, make sure its the white kind that says Sch 40 on the side of it. (Schedule Forty). If you can find/afford Sch 80, which is twice as thick as the white, that stuff makes heavy but decently durable reds, especially if you need a core to heat-bend for a curved weapon. Unfortunently Sch 80 pipe is like.....20 dollars for 10 feet or something crazy like that, luckily my dad is a plumbing contractor. -eye roll- If you must use spray glue, make sure to spray a layer on both surfaces that you are going to adhere, then let them both dry a minute or two until it loses it's luster, then put the pieces together. After you put them together DO NOT pull them back apart. If you do, the glue will lose it's adhesive properties when it strings. I speak from experience. ~Firoth Umm its not really heavy or wooden. Its a plastic but durable broom handle from walmart, one of the replacements. I cut off the piece that screws into the broom part and left it at its size. I believe you are meany do not use wood but I learned that first hand with my very first red. I do not understand why a broom would be bad. Could you please explain more? I do not wish to fight or argue (well i do want to fight, thats why I am making this) but since it is light weight and non wooden I do not see the problem.
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Post by Firoth on Jul 11, 2010 0:33:20 GMT -5
Hm, well my bad. I thought wood, when you said broom handle. I'd make sure that it has no aluminum in it for reinforcement, and that it can withstand an impact. You never know, it might actually make a good core. Seems like a broom handle would be ~1 inch diameter though, meaning the blade will be kinda thick, but besides that I don't see too many problems.
~Firoth
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Post by deuce600 on Jul 11, 2010 0:37:50 GMT -5
Now if it had any aluminum in it would it be real bad or able to tell? I dont want to make the entire blade and then have to scrap it
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Brogas
Servant
King of Dunland
Posts: 54
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Post by Brogas on Jul 11, 2010 1:17:58 GMT -5
It would be real bad, as in illegal. See rule:
4.1.11.5 - No weapons other than aluminum-shafted arrows may have metal cores.
So no metals including little bits of reinforcement should ever be used for a swung weapon especially. We are here to fight and have fun, not hurt anyone. It only takes one time for an illegal weapon to hurt someone and you don't want the reputation as "That guy!"
I have fought many times against and with the great people of Mittelmarch, the most valuable resource you have at your disposal is their experience which can not be replaced. Its good though you are asking the questions you are, so you can correctly build a weapon that will be safe and correctly made.
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MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Jul 11, 2010 1:38:56 GMT -5
If you do a PVC core, there's schedule 40 and schedule 80, but those also carry different PSI ratings. Get the 600 PSI (it's white, and available at Home Depot for like 3 bucks for a 10 foot stick), and you won't go wrong. I've yet to break a pvc core, despite what a lot of people will tell you.
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Post by deuce600 on Jul 11, 2010 2:16:36 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip, I know they are illegal but did not know how reinforced aluminum worked, I thought it was strong plastic at first, then cut it and found the aluminum. So pvc will be bought tom. My red is made of it and other then the flexing (hasnt failed the flex test yet thank god) it works real well.
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Post by deuce600 on Jul 11, 2010 2:17:23 GMT -5
Sorry for the double post but what length would you guys suggest?
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Dorian Prior
RP Architect
Black Legion & Sanguine Syndicate Agent
Posts: 405
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Post by Dorian Prior on Jul 11, 2010 2:44:23 GMT -5
Speaking from my own experience, PVC is probably the easiest and cheapest way to build a sword. More core for your buck usually, fairly easy to manipulate if necessary, and more tutorials out there involve using PVC. Honestly, I'd suggest learning to build a standard, basic PVC weapon before moving on to other types of cores. And as MacDimm said, they aren't nearly as fragile as they're played up to be. So far I've had only one PVC sword break on me (out of countless others). Also, I am rather wary of spray glues. Mostly from lack of real experience with them. I can wholly advocate the use of DAP though. I've learned that DAP is your best friend in building (and not JUST because of the fumes ;D). Finally, if you're planning on getting someone to organize a build session, DO NOT hold your breath. Carneth and I were in your position around April or May of last year, and aside from advice we got from practices and online, we had practically no personal guidance from our realm. We had to go to a player outside our realm to help us. Looking back on it now, it was pretty disappointing. But this is the part where I hang my head in shame and hypocrisy. While previously I'd have been willing to assist anyone with building basic weapons had they asked, I no longer have the free time to do so. I work two jobs, no days off, and barely make it to Tuesday practices as it is. If I can magically find spare time here in the next week or so to meet with you, I can let you know if need be. For now, I'd recommend borrowing swords from other players, get to see what they're like, then setting up a build session with a truly willing person after. Would hate to have you build a weapon and be excited about it, only to have it fail at a practice right off the bat. Waste of materials, time, etc. Anyways, that's my two cents. Take that with as much salt necessary for someone who's been fighting for only a little over a year.
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MacDimm
Meat Shield
Fearghus MacDimm of the White Bear Clan
Posts: 259
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Post by MacDimm on Jul 11, 2010 8:54:37 GMT -5
To follow Dorian's post: Come to practices, see some weapons, talk construction face to face, and THEN build your weapons. We have loaners on hand for newer players, and that way you can make SURE that your weapon will be a passable and function piece of equipment. This comes from a lot of experience helping newer players.
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Post by Stubbie on Jul 11, 2010 9:29:38 GMT -5
Follow this tutorial: www.dagorhir.com/gear/content/weapon_tutorials/howtomakeabluesword.swf and you pretty much CAN'T go wrong (yes the exception: DO NOT put the DUCT TAPE pieces around the blade, only along the "flats".) Starting out we built several swords to this tutorial and one is still going over a year later. As for length: it entirely depends on your fighting style (you'll discover this as you get into it; meaning aggressive, defensive, with a shield, with another sword, etc...) and your natural build (aka ya got gorilla arms?) . Old addage for getting you "close" to your "optimum" sword length is to vertically hold a yard stick straight down, "beginning" end resting on the ground, standing straight up. Look what measure you're holding the stick at. That measure would be where you handle would end up. Add 1" and cut your PVC core to that length. Your blade and pommel will add another ~4". Ex: If I held the stick down and came up with 28", I'd cut a 29" core, probably end up with 32-33" sword. Then you can have it checked, hopefully fight a bit with it and know "Well...I'm being out reached, I need to make my next on 2" longer" or "Their coming in my guard too easy / this thing is too unwieldy; my next one needs to be 2" shorter."
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Post by deuce600 on Jul 11, 2010 11:16:29 GMT -5
To follow Dorian's post: Come to practices, see some weapons, talk construction face to face, and THEN build your weapons. We have loaners on hand for newer players, and that way you can make SURE that your weapon will be a passable and function piece of equipment. This comes from a lot of experience helping newer players. Well thats just it, Im not that new, just never really had much weapon building because the one that I have made, a red, still is going strong but I am not allowed to use it in your group. I should be able to get the pvc today and finish it off and hopefully make it down tuesday, if there will be a turnout. I live around an hour away.
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Post by Firoth on Jul 11, 2010 12:02:15 GMT -5
I know this is kind of off topic, but I must say: Macdimm, A piece of 1/2" Sch 80 (read: more plastic than air) has a psi rating of 509/2720. A piece of 1/2" Sch 40 has a psi rating of 358/1910. The first number is the operating pressure, the second is the burst pressure. The larger the diameter gets, the lower these numbers get. There aren't actually different kinds of Sch 40, more so different kinds of pvc. There are three kinds of white pvc, two of which would be horrible to use in Dag. (Edit: The way I say this is kind of misleading. Yes, some of these are a kind of Sch 40, as Sch 40/80 is just how thick the walls are. What I mean is, is that there is only one kind of Sch 40 PVC, the white stuff.) 1. Sch 40. This is the good stuff, great for our applications in Dag. 2. Cellular Core Sch 40. This is used for drainage in water applications, but in Dag it seems to me like it would be a bad idea. Cellcore has a bunch of 'compartments' of air inside the walls, making it about 1/2 the weight of normal pvc. And I believe, half the strength as well. 3. CPVC. This stuff is usually a slight yellow color, and is used for irrigation for some reason. Its SUPER brittle, and super thin. I don't recommend it for either plumbing or sword making. There's also a grey kind of Sch 40 used for electrical conduit, but I have no idea if it's any different. Lastly, Sch 80 is dark grey in color and you WILL NOT find this at Home Depot. Anywhere you do find it will be selling it for an exuberant price. ~The plumbing apprentice. P.s. If your going to use pvc, make sure you put an "x" of duct tape over each side with a quarter/nickel/peso underneath to keep the edges of the tip from grating away the foam.
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Post by deuce600 on Jul 11, 2010 13:14:56 GMT -5
Alright who wants a laugh? I went to pick up pvc for my core and all they had was around 10-12 feet. I drive a tiny eclipse. I barely got the end of the pvc ducked into the trunk. I got up lit my cig and the pvc sprang up hitting me in the face, worse it knocked my cig out! So safety first when moving pvc pipe.
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Kotaro
Moderator
Supporter of Hammer Pants
Shogun
Posts: 1,174
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Post by Kotaro on Jul 11, 2010 13:43:34 GMT -5
I can get Sch80 PVC at the Lowe's across the street from my house for $7 for 10'. At least that's what it cost last time I went.
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Post by Firoth on Jul 11, 2010 16:38:50 GMT -5
That's a great price. What diameter?
Hehe, and Deuce, they'll cut the pipe for you if you ask em. Good job getting a ten footer in an eclipse though.
~Firoth
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Post by deuce600 on Jul 11, 2010 16:47:45 GMT -5
ehh I didnt care got enough for 4 swords, cut them to the following lengths 22 1/4 (the final piece) 30 32 36. Thanks lol but i got owned by my eclipse and pvc I didnt stand a chance. I believe it was 1 inch diameter. Im about to start but i want to write my backstory first
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